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Trent Werner: Welcome back to another episode of the deal deep dive segment on the Westside Investors Network podcast. I'm your host, Trent Warner. In this segment, our future guests will share their unique stories on a specific deal they've invested in. We'll dive deep into finding the deal, financing the deal, writing an offer, and the due diligence. Do us a solid and smash that subscribe button, leave us a rating, and share this episode.
And now let's dive deep. Welcome back to the Westside Investors Network podcast. I'm your host, Trent Warner. On today's episode, we are joined by the CEO and founder of Sunset Capital, Sam Morris. Sam is going to share his story on his eighteen year career in real estate finance and lending that has now led to Sunset Capital, a very successful multifamily syndication company.
Sam is gonna share his opinions and his insight on what we should be looking at in underwriting in today's current market, as well as some asset management focuses Sunset Capital has been focused on during the last few years. Now let's welcome Sam Morris. All right, we have Sam Morris joining the Win podcast today. Sam, thanks so much for joining us.
Sam Morris: Yeah, Trent. Nice to meet you and glad to be here, bud.
Trent Werner: I'm excited for our conversation because Sam has a lot of experience in real estate finance and that clearly translates to real estate syndication because finance is a huge part of acquiring deals and operating deals. Sam, do you wanna talk about your experience and your background in the real estate finance specific?
Sam Morris: Yeah. Sure. You know, as we have started, my name is Sam Morris. I'm the CEO of Sunset Capital. You know, we're based here in Houston, Texas, and we're owners and asset managers in the multifamily storage space.
But as by way of education, as you alluded to, Trent, I was a I'm a former corporate banker. And so that's actually how I got my start in really real estate was from the banking side. And so at a at a young age, right out of college, I started working in the banking industry. And all I did all day, every day for years was underwrite. So I just underwrote deals all day, every day for years.
And I always chuckle because people always ask, you know, it takes 10,000 to master a skill, right? And I always say, Well, that's the case, I mastered underwriting probably by the time I was 24, 20 five years old because it's literally all I did for hours on hours every single day. And it gave me a great base and foundation from a quantitative perspective to have a really fantastic understanding of CRE and the assets, the commercial real estate assets, how they worked, what worked, what didn't work, who operated well, what areas of town did better than others. It was really a great initial kind of education that helps springboard me into the industry.
Trent Werner: So normally I ask people that have had a previous career to real estate what skills have have correlated and translated into syndication. I think I already know the answer to that. And underwriting would probably be the the easy answer there. Was there any
Sam Morris: One of them. But you know what may surprise you too is, in particular, when I became a lender, you quickly figured out who were good operators, what they did that was good, what they did that wasn't good, how they handled adverse situations, things like that. You were able to kind of ingrain yourself on the operational side without having to actually be in it. And so there were a lot of skill sets that translated over really well from a syndication standpoint as well. And understanding, you know, site selection and things like that and what's going on in the area and how that impacts, the properties that you have.
Trent Werner: And from a operation standpoint, when you were doing lending and and commercial real estate finance, were you specifically working on deals in certain markets or locations?
Sam Morris: Yes, I would say Texas, which is where we operate now. And that's, that's a it's a great thing, because that's really where we have our assets today. And so what I would tell you is, you know, we quickly learned being the largest partner in the deal most of the time as the lender, which most of the time that is the largest partner in the deal, because they put up more than half the equity to acquire a deal. We were heavily ingrained with knowing what's going on with our asset. Really where the education line is, is like I said, when something adverse happened.
We're based in Houston, Texas. And so it's not uncommon to have a hurricane come through or something like that to where we were able to quickly kinda learn, you know, who who handled it well, what they did to handle it well, and how they were able to do that.
Trent Werner: And and I know Sunset is vertically integrated. So how did your experience in commercial lending and finance relate to asset management, for example?
Sam Morris: Yeah. I mean, there's obviously a heavily quantitative side associated with that. But, you know, lenders, you know, a lot of bankers too, they're sales type guys. They have to be able to get along with a lot of different personalities. And so being understanding how to run teams, which I, you know, I was a market president.
So I ran teams of people, that were all different types within the bank too. And so having the understanding of what you need to do to get everybody to come together to fulfill the purpose, I. E, execute on a business plan, things of that nature. And so it's marrying the quantitative with the qualitative is probably easiest way to say that and allowed us to, you know, succeed probably quicker than most most groups would.
Trent Werner: Yeah. And and so I know you've been in the business longer than I have, and you've on the finance and lending side, one thing that I've noticed, especially over the last two, three years, is lender inspections are becoming very frequent. You know, sometimes twice a year, in some cases more than that. Prior to the last couple of years, it might have been once a year or if everything seemed to be going well, it might have been a couple of years for a lender to schedule an inspection and go through all that. What have you noticed from an asset management standpoint and knowing how that's operated for years?
What have you seen in that specific facet of this syndication space?
Sam Morris: Yeah, I would say it hasn't really changed for us, but there's probably a couple reasons why. One, we communicate well with our lenders, and we're proactive about it from the standpoint of, hey, you know, big storm just came through freeze and same kind of things we do with our investors and we'll allow, you know, we'll we'll send a message. Hey, just to let you know, freeze came through, you know, here are the, here are the steps we took to be proactive ahead of time. No damage, no nothing to the property or nothing of consequence. Just dropping you a line to let you know your collateral secure.
You do things like that on a more consistent basis with your lenders. You're not somebody they're going to be worried about. You're not somebody they're going to sit there and go, man, we haven't been out there in six, eight months. We really need to get back out there again. Because we're proactive from the communication standpoint with that.
And so there's just a cadence that we work through anytime. We have hurricanes almost every single year. We'll literally send them messages beforehand going, Hey, just to let you know, our teams are out there. They're cleaning gutters, clearing drains, prepping for potential wind and rain, whatever it may be. We've alerted all the residents.
We're securing everything, buttoning down the hatchets. Right. And then once it does occur, Hey, here's what happened. Whatever you limit, you show them whatever the damage was, whatever it may be, but you're proactive about it, showing them what's going on. And from there, you know, they they get kind of a comfort level with with you as a borrower.
And obviously have a comfort level knowing that that's a piece of collateral for a loan that they have.
Trent Werner: Yeah, I think that's that's a really good piece of advice for anyone listening is to communicate well with your lenders. And if you're struggling with that, get better at it. Because from my experience, lenders are usually pretty understanding as long as you're managing the property, operating the property, and protecting the, like you said, the piece of collateral that they're lending millions of dollars on in some cases.
Sam Morris: Yeah. It shows it shows that, hey. You know, I'm not a fly by night person. I'm here to you know, this is my business. I'm taking care of my business.
And it's really simple for us too from the standpoint of the investors wanna know the same information. So it's almost kind of a cut and paste. You can actually, you know, do it with both of them at the same time. And the investors have a comfort level knowing you're taking care of the asset and so does the lender.
Trent Werner: Absolutely. So, Sam, real estate finance right now is a a hot topic. A lot of people are talking about it. What is your take on the current, I guess, lending environment? And how can people navigate the current market that we're in when it comes to commercial real estate, multifamily, you know, storage, whatever it may be?
Sam Morris: Yeah, I mean, if you are, if you're looking for a new asset, let's say you're on the acquisition trail, right? I would say for your underwriting, you probably need to recognize that we may be in a what they call higher for longer period, meaning the interest rates. And I have a little bit longer term perspective of this, too. The interest rates from a historical perspective really aren't high. If you go back just five years, they do seem high because of where we've come from.
But if you go back twenty years, we're really kind of in a normal type of situation of where we would be. And so it doesn't seem too far out of bounds with where we're operating today. But what I would say is from an underwriting perspective, if you're sitting there going, hey, in two or three years, we're underwriting to have a refinance occur that's going to be at 100 or 50 or 200 basis points lower than where we are today. I would really advise caution against something like that just because you're now trying to control an uncontrollable and deal with at a macro level of something that you really just nobody knows. And if they say they know, they're wrong.
I mean, they really are. I would actually really caution against listening to somebody like that. But one of the benefits I get is I still sit on the board of a bank. And so, you know, we get a little bit probably more insight of far as what people are thinking with interest rates just with a broader range of financial resources available to us that way. But to me, I would say a higher for longer is kind of a more common sentiment.
After going to NMHC a couple of weeks ago, it really does seem like we're in a fairly stable interest rate market that's really not going to go too far up or down, you know, for the foreseeable future at this point.
Trent Werner: So when that comes to, I guess, looking at acquisitions and and underwriting these deals, a lot of people in the last handful of years were banking on refis at low interest rates. If that's out of the question or or maybe not in the question for, you know, five years, we'll say. What does the underwriting model focus on on, let's use a multifamily property class B at this point, what does an operator or someone that may be newer into underwriting, what do they need to focus on in their models when they're looking at the possible acquisitions?
Sam Morris: Yeah. I mean, it's gonna depend somewhat on the business plan that they have associated with the property itself. But if you're, you know, if your plan is, hey, I'm we're gonna go in here. We're gonna buy them. We're gonna hold for seven years.
Right? I mean, my advice would be, you know, go figure out what a spread is to treasury, you know, in a in a maybe an agency type deal. And I would put that underwriting in. Right? And so and that that could potentially kill a deal.
But at the same time too, you're banking on interest rates. Mean, it's caused issues for a lot of operators and particularly those that made acquisitions in 'twenty one and 'twenty two, where they had floating rate debt on it and rate caps start to expire and things of that nature. And it really changes the dynamics of the deal and why you're seeing a lot of cash calls and preferred equity funds that are now coming into play to try to save deals and extend the life of them. And it was due to financing and the way that people underwrote back then.
Trent Werner: What would you say to someone that says prices are over elevated? They're, you know, through the roof right now. No deals are penciling. Is it still possible to find a good deal and make a deal pencil? Mean tell someone like that.
Sam Morris: Certainly hope so. I mean, we acquired quite a bit in the last twelve months. I would say, no. I would say absolutely. I mean, you just you you probably need to do more underwriting of deals.
And it may not be that you're finding your exact perfect match and you're starting to see people start moving outside of their box, meaning they have a buy box right here that they're gonna that's all they wanna do. And that buy box is now shifting or growing a little bit of things that they're willing to consider. But I mean, is the bid ask spread still pretty far apart? I would say yes. But it's been shrinking, in particular over the last twelve months.
And I don't know where that equilibrium is, but when it hits, I mean, everybody will kind of know because a lot more deal flow will occur. And some of the sellers, their backs against a wall, meaning they have a note maturing or something of that nature. And they're going to be forced into a situation where some kind of liquidation event needs to occur, whether it be a sale or refinance. And so it's a cycle like anything else. And where we are in the cycle is it does feel like there are going to be more trades occurring this year.
But to say that everything's overpriced and nothing's going to pencil, I would say underwrite your number and see what happens because and stick to your number and stay disciplined that way because you may find that as we get as sellers get backed up to that wall, they may be a little bit more open to hearing what buyers have to say and vice versa. I mean, if seller's not there and they said, no, this is what's going to trade at and this is where we're at and the buyer really wants it, you may have a meeting in the middle, so to speak. And that's how deals are going to transact. And now here's a word from our sponsor.
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I know you said you primarily focus in Texas and the Southeast. How are you guys finding deals that you said you acquired a handful in the last twelve months. Clearly, you guys are still acquiring deals. How are you finding these deals that pencil makes sense for your buy box and your criteria?
Sam Morris: Yeah, I mean, our size, the size deals we go out and chase, I mean, we really need brokers to be involved. And so I would say there's probably not a day that goes by that we're not talking to brokers throughout the state. And, you know, knowing, hey, what's coming on? What potentially could come on? Is there anything we can get early looks at things of that nature?
Or there's anything you can show us early numbers on where we can give you kind of here's where we would be and see how close it is with your BOVs, things of that nature. But I would say, you know, from a relational standpoint, we just have relations with, you know, a lot of brokers throughout the state, every brokerage house you can think of, and we talk to them fairly consistently to see what's going on. They have a very good understanding, too, of what our buy boxes. So a lot of times they're reaching out to us. I talked to one earlier today, and he just he had a distressed opportunity come up that's a little smaller than what we would probably look at.
But we just we talked about it. It's not on the market yet, but it will be. And, you know, he just wanted to know if it was something we wanted to take an early peek at.
Trent Werner: I guess a question that just popped into my head is in terms of financing right now, one thing that I've seen is operators and people acquiring deals are having to bring more capital to the table. You find that true in deals that you're seeing and deals that you're doing?
Sam Morris: Yeah, again, it depends on the on the deal itself and the type of underwriting. One of the things that we did a lot of last year was we put deals into HFC, which is the Housing Finance Corporation. And so there was affordability component that we brought to the deals. And it significantly enabled us to get better leverage on the deals associated with that because we were able to reduce the tax burden associated with those properties. And it enabled us to transact a handful of times on deals because of that.
But in general, I would say yes. And it's really more underwriting to either a debt yield or debt coverage ratio. And so if you're going in and just it's not automatic that you're going to have to put down 40% on a deal, It's more of a what's the cash flow of that deal? How does it look like from an NOI perspective and backing into the numbers to be able to get to the loan amounts that you're looking to get? I mean, are pretty much all the same.
They want to know that they have coverage to get repaid. Right? And so the loan to values, they may have some caps associated with it or some minimums associated with it, but it still comes into play of what is it you know, how much money does the property make that's going to be able to repay us.
Trent Werner: Right. Okay. That makes sense. And and for your guys' deals, what are you I mean, you don't have to give me specific numbers, but are you falling in that 30% or, I guess, 70% loan to value? Are you floating closer to the 40% or 60% loan to value?
Sam Morris: No, I would say we're probably more like the 75% LTVs associated with the deals. And that means that we're buying at a purchase price that will also cover at a, you know, call it a one two or one two five debt coverage ratio for the deal to be able to make those deals work.
Trent Werner: That's interesting. Because the the people especially the newer operators that I've talked with recently have all said, you know, we're looking at 60% loan to value, sometimes 50% loan to value. And so I'm it's interesting to hear how you guys are are doing deals with a 25% or, I guess, 75% loan to value.
Sam Morris: And like that, it's it's still gonna be deal specific. Right? It's how you buy the deal, what your plan is for the deal, and then the the income associated with it. Because a lot of people when you're buying real estate, and it really doesn't matter what type of real estate you're buying. Right?
You're buying either a current and or future income stream. Right? And that's how we're getting our values. And as operators, you come in and you go, all here are the things I'm going to do that are going to enhance that from a valuation standpoint. And why investors and or lenders should come in and do this with me is because I'm going to be able to do x, y, and z.
And so part of it is our ability to go, hey, here are the things that we're doing to the property and why it's going to make sense for you, lender, or you, investor, to come in on this property with us. And so if you've got to come in and go, man, for me to be able to make this work right off the bat, I'm going have to come up with more money. But with what I'm going to be able to do to it, it could create quite a bit of value. Well, there still could be a lot of reasons to do deals like that that have, you know, 60 or 50% leverage because of the returns that you are, you know, as an operator planning on going and getting.
Trent Werner: Yeah. That's that's an interesting point too, is it sounds like you're still looking at value add deals. Right?
Sam Morris: Sure. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Trent Werner: Because the another thing that people have been talking about is value add is a lot more difficult right now. Not only are you having to bring more capital for the actual acquisition, but then you still have this rehab budget. And so, you know, they're used to raising a certain amount of capital, but now you gotta bring more to the table for the financing piece, and they're it's scaring them off of the actual rehab cost and performing on that on that rehab budget that they're setting.
Sam Morris: Sure. And and a lot of that, again, is gonna be site specific, right? Because if you're in an area where, let's say, there's a lot of excess supply, you going in and spending a whole lot of dollars to do a value add at that property to try to get something higher than where they're currently at can be a bit of a challenge. And so trying to make money off of that kind of a spin may not make a lot of sense. You may not be able to get the return that you're looking for associated with that spin.
Whereas if you're buying in an area that, let's just say, is more supply constrained and there's a lot more demand associated with it, you may get much better return for the dollars, or you may not only have to spend as many dollars to be able to get a larger return associated with that. And so real estate is location specific. And that's why I say every deal is a little bit different. You have to kind of weigh where you're at associated with it. And that's where the financing is gonna come into play for each of those deals as well.
Trent Werner: Well, Sam, I do have another question on on financing and and you may have an answer that I'm not ready for, but what is your opinion on floating rate versus fixed rate debt in our current market right now?
Sam Morris: I think both have both of them have merit. They really do. And so, you know, I'm not one of those guys who are anti floating rate debt. You can't ever use it. You know, it just it burned some people.
But I will tell you, we have investors, not necessarily for our deals, but for other deals that have some PTSD associated with it because it impacted the values of their deals. But there is absolutely a time and place for floating rate. But it has more to do with the business plan associated with the property. If you're sitting there going in and going, hey, we have to get floating rate to make a deal work, And rates need to be x or below. And that's the only way we're going to make the deal work.
That can be a challenge. It really can. And obviously, if you have a fixed rate product, an agency type rate product, and you go, all right, we're going go borrow money at ten or twelve year type rates, but our business plan is to exit in three years, that may not work because of the yield maintenance or defeasance associated with those deals. And so there is a time and place for both of those where they absolutely make sense just based upon the business plan associated with the asset that you're buying. So I'm not anti either of them.
I absolutely think both work depending on the business plan associated with the deal.
Trent Werner: I'm very glad that you answered it that way because over the last twenty four months or so, there have been a lot of people, you know, acquiring PTSD from floating rate debt investments that maybe went south for them. And I agree with you. I think there are times and places for both, and it just really depends on what your acquisition and business plan looks like for these deals. You did mention something about, you know, if it doesn't make sense or if if you have fixed rate debt and you're looking to exit in three years, it might not make sense because you might not hit the returns. Do you see people holding acquisitions for a little bit longer than maybe we saw five years ago, for example, at this current time?
Sam Morris: For sure. Because if you look at how people underwrote deals five years ago to today, right, their business plans are probably not as accurate as they thought it would be five years ago. And so they're more likely behind on their pro formas associated with it. And so they probably have had to make some pivots to adjust to be able to get to where they want to go from an exit standpoint. And therefore, they may have to hold longer because of that.
The whole reason I said you may not want to go like a long term agency deal for a three year business plan is because of what I was talking about from a debt yield or yield maintenance perspective. I mean, you can have a fairly significant prepayment penalty, which is what those are. They can wipe out a lot of growth from a valuation standpoint. Whereas if you wouldn't have had a floating rate deal that didn't have that kind of prepayment penalty associated with it, those funds that you earn in valuation can go to your investors.
Trent Werner: Right. And that makes that makes perfect sense. We've actually kicked around the idea. There was a couple deals that we had that we were looking at selling earlier than we anticipated, and the yield or the, you know, prepayment penalties. At one point, we were saying, you know what?
It's okay if we pay them. It's not the end of the world. And then you get actually down into the details. You're like, man, this this isn't money that I wanna spend in fees. I'd rather give it to the investors.
And and so we decided just to hold on and continue operating these assets that we had.
Sam Morris: And that's a reason why some people that maybe acquired a deal five years ago are potentially still holding on to it because they realize if I let this burn off in another year or two, just the prepayment penalty going away could be of significant benefit to their investors.
Trent Werner: Absolutely. So I do have an asset management question for you because we kind of talked about it a little bit earlier. In these last thirty six months, we'll say, what are some of the asset management focuses from Sunset Capital and things that you guys are really paying attention to right now?
Sam Morris: Yeah. A lot of it is adherence to the business plan, meaning are the operating teams that are on-site adhering to the business plan that we have associated with it? But also, a lot of it's more cost control too, and particularly things that are somewhat outside of our control. Down here in Houston, we're a tier one county, which means we deal with a lot of insurance issues from a cost standpoint. And insurance has gone up quite a bit, not just with us, but all over the country.
But in the coastal communities, it's gone up quite a bit. And it's really hard to outrun that when you have an NOI based growth that you want to do from a valuation standpoint, and you have large line items that are growing at far significant double digits. And so you have to do things and find ways to make sure that you can stay within those parameters so that you can maintain and create value associated with it. And that's really that's a heavily quantitative way of of looking at things from an asset management standpoint. But then you gotta like I said earlier, you gotta marry it with the qualitative and make sure that the on-site teams have a great understanding.
Hey. Here's what we're doing and why we're doing it, And this is how it's going to impact you and our residents. And so it's really trying to open up those lines of communication a little bit more, probably more so than we have in the past and getting everybody on board with the business plan. It's a little unique because it's really less of a financial answer there and more of a collaborative answer of going, hey, you know, I'm trying to make sure the teams are talking well with one another so that they can execute the business plan that we have in place.
Trent Werner: When I know the the solution or the resolution to increase expenses isn't just pass that on to the tenants or the residents there because that's you know, if insurance is going up by twenty five percent, you can't just give everyone a 25% rent increase and have that cover the bill. So what are what are some of the the things that you're doing? Maybe areas that you're cutting costs or trying to reduce expenses to combat this? Because insurance is a hot topic too right now. But Yeah.
What are some of the things that you guys are doing to combat some of these significant expense increases?
Sam Morris: Yeah. From a strategic standpoint, a lot of it could be know, really, it's we're having to eat quite a bit of it. But a lot of the residents, I will tell you, have a very clear understanding of what's going on with insurance as well. And in some cases, I wish it was only 25%. Right?
And so some of it is educating the resident, letting them know, hey, it is not the same for us from a cost perspective just to run the operations of this thing the way it was six months ago or a year ago. And so it's really kind of being vocal about it, letting them know, hey, guys, there's going to be increases, albeit on renewals and new leases. And you're going to see some of this costs because it has to be passed, passed down. Right. I would say we make cuts where we can make cuts, but we won't cut to the bone.
And that's something else we're going to be pretty vocal about with the residents, letting them know, Hey, you know, we're not going to cut the services that we have to you. We still want to be able to provide you the amenities we do and the services that we have that you've come to love and expect and enjoy at our facilities. Right? And all of these are becoming a little bit more expensive everywhere you go. And the thing is, it's being reiterated everywhere.
It's not just us. So they're seeing inflation on the news. They're seeing all these other things associated with it. That's actually reinforcing what we're telling them. And we're now showing them what that's going to look like.
And so we're having a lot of those communications ahead of time. And it absolutely helps too, because it's not going to be the shock and all when a resident sees, hey, we're going to have to increase your rent by $50 or $75 from a renewal perspective. There's no shock and awe associated with it because we've been communicating with them, letting them know, hey, have some costs that are going up and it's hitting everybody. And everybody's gonna have to kind of do their part to live in this great, wonderful community we built.
Trent Werner: Yeah. That's from our experience, we've kind of seen something similar. Our insurance expense is not nearly as bad as it is in other markets where our assets are here on the West Coast. But just like you said, all the expenses overall are hitting these tenants, whether it's their groceries or their insurance, their utilities. And you know, some tenants are more more willing to to eat that that rent increase.
And other tenants, it's a lot more difficult for them, they're having to move or, you know, seek assistance. Do you guys have any resources like that where you in Texas for rental assistance and that sort of Not
Sam Morris: only that, I mean, we have there's there's a ton of resources out here from a perspective of not just rental assistance. Right? We may we may have other assistance programs that we're able to at least inform them of. We don't really guide anybody to them, but we do inform them of, hey, if you're struggling, you know, here are some other programs that are out there that, you know, could potentially help in these particular times.
Trent Werner: And what are your thoughts on how these expenses are kind of running wild right now? How how are how is this increase in inflation and this expense category going to affect performance of assets in the future?
Sam Morris: I think it'll show you who the true operators are. I mean, just being very frank, I think it'll show the guys who are ready to get in there and grind and work with their teams and and pinch the pennies where they need to be pinched and operate out of the times we're in. Mean, real estate is a cycle like a lot of other industries. And so you'll see who can do well through this through this cycle.
Trent Werner: I love that. I think that's that's some that's some very true words that you just spoke there because, I mean, even already, we've seen some operators go under that were taking advantage of a very hot real estate market where they can get in and out, churn and burn, and do deals and share their successes that way. But as soon as it got time to, like you said, dig your dig your heels in and get gritty, Unfortunately, they're they're not around anymore. And that's been a topic in the news. I'm sure a lot of people have seen that are listening to this.
Sam Morris: Sure. I mean, I think it's it's important. A lot of people I mean, they you want to stay with somebody who's pristine or things like that. I would tell you, it's Okay to invest with somebody that's got some battle scars because you want to know that they've been there and gone through it and that they know how to get out on the other side. And so part of that is, you you gotta have a few gray hairs and been through some cycles to be able to recognize what you're going through and then recognize what you need to do to get through it all.
Trent Werner: Absolutely. Well, Sam, speaking of good operators, where can people hear more from you, connect with you and maybe learn more about Sunset Capital?
Sam Morris: Yeah, easiest way is to go to our website, sunsetcapital.com. And we love meeting new people. We love entertaining new investors. And, you know, come learn more about us.
Trent Werner: And I think when you guys visit their website, you will definitely see Sam and his entire team success, their awesome portfolio that they have, and definitely connect with Sam and the rest of his team when you can.
Sam Morris: Trent, really appreciate it, bud. Thanks so much.
Trent Werner: Thanks, Sam.
Intro speaker: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Real Estate Professionals Investing Podcast on WIN, your community of investing knowledge for growth. We hope that this episode has increased your knowledge and added value to your path to freedom. If you would, please take a second to rate us so that we can get more great investors to interview. If you or someone that you know wants to be on, please visit westsideinvestors.com and fill out our form to be on the show. Thank you again, and enjoy your day.
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